Campground WiFi setup? (Meraki antennae ranges?)

[ValleyITPC]

Hi all, first time tackling a campground WiFi install.  

Let's assume a low budget situation, which normally would render anything Meraki as out of bounds.  Just the same, as Meraki is my preferred brand, is there actually anything in the Meraki portfolio that would tackle WiFi needs in a campground setting of a mile or two coverage with a handful of hotspots in between?  From everything I have researched, the answer is no.  MR76's, MR86's, etc., are all great in their capability but are poorly suited to a network of this type, where the option to run wiring to all locations doesn't exist, and antenna range for them is quite limited.  

From what I gather, Ubiquiti seems to have all the hardware needed, much cheapera nd more suited to the variety of ranges and obstacles, but supposedly their support os horrendous and then you have various other issues like hardware availability etc.  I also have no experience with Ubiquiti, is it even cloud-managed like Meraki or what.  But any router with a DDNS setup can be made to be managed remotely so it's all good there but well, just wondering in general if Meraki has campground WiFi in mind.  

And what are some max ranges of whatever accessory antenaas work with Meraki devices?  For example the AIR-ANT2513P4M-N= which is compatible with the MR86 says dbi 13, which I understand is anywhere from 1 centimeter to 1000 KM (I'm being sarcastic - I can't get a straight answer on this dbi stuff no matter where I look).  

In theory I could justify a couple of MR86's if they could bridge to each other using some really good long range antenna, and perhaps put a mesh of lower-end APs in the vicinity of needed client connections.  *shrug*.  Thanks for any help.  

[cmr]

@ValleyITPC with all WiFi setups, the limiting factor is usually the clients as opposed to the infrastructure.  Many brands will allow transmit powers to be set very high so you get a 'better coverage', but then don't hear the client's replies, leading to a poor experience.

If you have an open space then you should get good coverage, but you really need to either survey it, or test out all the options once live...

[ValleyITPC]

How about building it out slowly?  Like in my case, I'm not really a WiFi survey expert.  I could walk around with inSSIDer for example, but would have the have the hardware in place first so I don't know, perhaps I'd have to install a WAP, document performance, and kind of go from there.  I'm way too used to simple small business setups where you just stick a WAP anywhere you find a dead spot, or reposition an existing one etc to do with reflection, detraction, refraction, subtraction and grammar anomalies 😉 anyway I wonder, is there a "Idiots Guide to WiFi Site Surveys" because I'm definitely the idiot on this one.  

I'm curious but in your message it sounded like you're saying the transmit power can override the client response?  I didn't even know what was possible - I always assumed the transmit power, if set to max on all APs, might potentially cause issues with neithboring RF devices in the same channel space, but I didn't realize you could actually affect your clients' devices' response.  Would that be more in situations where the AP's and extenders are all using different SSID's and thus different channels potentially?  I'm so used to single-SSID with roaming via Meraki setups that I never even consider having multiple SSID's (unless it's virtual SSID's on the same network, like a guest one).  

[PaulMcG · Accepted solution]

I've worked on both small campground/low budget as well as a large campground/big budget installs using MR74/76.

My advice, run.  

Failing that, make sure customer expectations are well documented to avoid a moving target.  End users won't have the same expectations as the campground operator so this will save you some headaches.

Asside from Meraki not being a low budget solution, lots of other costs come with a campground install.  Poles, underground cable runs for ethernet/fibre or power if you go with MESH, etc.  We've quoted many small campgrounds who were willing to foot the bill for the gear but when the extras were explained, they always backed out.  

I would only use MESH to plug holes that are too difficult to cable rather than as a way to cover a large area.  POE extenders are a better option to get more reach.

Doing a survey is essential.

[ValleyITPC]

This is all great advice.  lol @ the "run" comment.  I was developing a gut feeling that some expectations reset would be necessary, now I"m convinced it is.  

Currently, this campground has perhaps 'some' infrastructure in place.  A series of 4 or 5 Linksys WRT54g units.  I think a couple of them might be wired in, however, at least a couple of them are connected mesh or in some kind of repeater mode.  They even have connectivity metrics on a dashboard that I have not seen but I suspect these were redone with that DD-WRT firmware or something, as I don't recall wrt54g's ever having these capabilities.  One of them apparently even have a oversized antantee attached, I have no idea what, but it's way out of standard spec, yet it provides working WiFi for 100's of meters (I'm actually in Canada but used the ":mile" reference figuring most folks on here were in the US).  

So:  

Site survey:  seems I'll have to do more than one.  First, to see what's currently there, what poles and conduit for data/power already exist.  Also to map out the desired client areas.  Then back here to research what product line(s) will fit the need.  I am not a fan of mixed-vendor solujtions but Meraki is too costly I'm fairly sure here, though if I could at least get an MX in there...

A second trip back after I've figured out what hardware we need.  I could buy hardware for "training" purposes, and then sell/deploy if the proof of concept works.  Dunno there, need to calculate my costs vs. gains if the owner says no thanks. 

Would you charge for these site surveys?  Seems like a hell of a lot of work for not a big invoice potentially (I'm a consultant).  The client is an hour's drive in both directions.  

Also, what are your thoughts on WiFi 5, 6, 6E here?  5 and 6Ghz are more future proof but shorter range...2.4Ghz has no future yet seems to be the only option for a wide area coverage, without going nuts with hardware costs.  

Ok time to find my running shoes.....lol

[PaulMcG]

I'm in Canada too but still don't like using kilometers.  Your customer's current setup seems like what I've seen at most campgrounds I've encountered.  A bunch of what was on sale at Best Buy last week that kinda works but no one is really happy with.  You can also look forward to explaining why they have to pay for a year round license when they're closed with 6 feet of snow on the ground half the year.  

I wouldn't depend too much on a survey of what's currently there as RF power settings are most likely completely out of whack so won't really get you any useful data on what is really needed.

As far as frequencies, you're going to want to use 2.4GHz wether it's future proof or not as it will give you the best range.  Also, if any MESH repeaters are needed, you want to keep your 5GHz bands free for uplinks and only allow clients to connect to 2.4.  

If your customer is already on a shoestring budget, not really any point talking about WiFi 6E.  Besides, in terms of Meraki at the moment, the only AP that supports it is the MR57 which isn't for outdoor use anyways.  I imagine most other vendors 6E APs are also part of their premium lineup.  

[ValleyITPC]

Yeah true about the survey.  I think it would just be useful to gather info about where power runs to, mostly stuff like that.  But yeah, perhaps the approach is to build it out slowly.  Advise them that we'll stick a management station or router or whatever in, add a couple access points, see what we end up with, and if things look good then we proceed to expand out.  Otherwise, I don't see there being any ready-made turnkey solution to this sort of setup.  

Understood regarding 2.4Ghz.  I could be wrong but I thought I had seen some sort of blurb somewhere about some WiFi 6 being able to run on 2.4Ghz, as opposed to the typical docs that say you can run concurrently .11n with newer stuff...this thing implied .11ax runs on 2.4Ghz.  I don't know, in any case, with a good connection with a handful of clients dividing .11n amongst each other, that's a form of rate limiting right there.  

Good advice all around, thank you.  I suppose if I proceed with this I'll post more questions 🙂 I appreciate it!