Unused licenses using co-termination.

[BobHarrison]

We have co-termination licensing in place. Our license limit for MR access points is 34, but we are only using 17.

If we were to purchase a new MS switch, the time would be spread over the 34 MR access points, also, even though we aren't using half of them. Is that correct? If yes, how do we avoid that?

Is there a way to reduce the license limit so we are not burning time on licenses that are not being used?

Thanks

[alemabrahao]

The Cisco Meraki Co-Termination licensing model works on the basis of co-termination, which means that for any given organization, regardless of how many licenses were applied or when they were applied, the license expiration date for all licenses claimed to that organization will be exactly the same. This is accomplished by averaging all active licenses together and dividing by the license limit count of devices in the organization.

For example, suppose an organization had two separate Enterprise AP licenses, one license for 2x APs spanning one year (365 days) and another for 1x AP spanning five years (1,825 days). The co-termination value would be calculated as ((1825*1)+(365*2))/3= 851 days total for all three APs. So assuming all three licenses were applied on the same day, the organization would have a co-term date of 851 days from the start date of the licenses.

If the licenses were not applied at the same time, for example if the five-year license was applied halfway through the one-year license, the co-term calculation will take that into effect. In this case, the calculation would be ((1825*1)+(182*2))/3=730 days total for all three APs.

Note: The organization co-termination date does not depend on the current device count, but rather the license limit. Removing devices from a network or organization will not impact the co-termination date.

https://documentation.meraki.com/General_Administration/Licensing/Meraki_Co-Termination_Licensing_Ov...

[BobHarrison]

Thanks for your reply. I know how buying a new license is spread over all devices and moves the cotermination date forward.

My question is what happens if I buy a new device like a MS switch that I don't have a current license to apply to it. When I purchase the license it is going to extend the co-termination date on the 17 MR access points that I am using. It looks like I will never be able to get those 17 MR access points off my licenses until I reach the co-termination date. That may never happen is I keep adding switches or other devices that keep bumping the co-termination date further into the future.

[alemabrahao]

If you don't buy a license for the MS you will have a grace period of 30 days, after this time you need to buy a license for your MS to continue working.

This will not affect your MR licensing.

See this part of the documentation I sent you.

The 30-Day Grace Period

The number of devices in an organization cannot exceed the license limits. If this occurs, the organization will enter a 30-day grace period, during which the organization must be brought back into compliance, otherwise it will be shut down until proper licensing is applied to the organization.

[BobHarrison]

I know about adding licenses and the grace periods, What I'm asking, is when I do purchase the MS license either before or during the 30 day grace period, how do I avoid having those extra days being added to existing licenses that I am not using?

[alemabrahao]

There is no way, in co-term licensing the license time will generate a new time for the entire dashboard.

The best option would be to use the per-device license which is more flexible.

https://documentation.meraki.com/General_Administration/Licensing/Meraki_Per-Device_Licensing_Overvi...

[BobHarrison]

So as long as I am expanding my network the co-termination licensing works great. But when I downsize any part of it (in our case the number of access points), we are stuck with paying for those licenses forever unless we go to PDL. Even then in our case, there will be over a year of time left on those unused MR device licenses. 

We have been exploring options for our networking equipment including Meraki and others. If this is correct, then Meraki will not make our short list.

[alemabrahao]

The statement is correct, all information is based on documentation and day-to-day experience

As I mentioned, the PDL is a very good option, as you can only renew what you deem necessary.

Think about it, do you think that changing an entire solution just because of the current licensing mode you are using is not viable?

Wouldn't it be more interesting to just change this to PDL?

[BobHarrison]

There are other issues we deal with using Meraki and we are always looking to see if there are better options for our company. The co-termination was a major plus for adminstering our environment. So since that has cost us financially and we can't keep using co-termination other solutions MAY be better for us.

[cmr]

@BobHarrison create a new org and inside it create a wireless network.  Then ask support to transfer the spare MR licenses to it.  Once this is done but the MS license and it will only be spread across the in use devices.

[Ryan_Miles]

Support involvement is not required to move licenses https://documentation.meraki.com/General_Administration/Licensing/How_to_do_a_License_Transfer_in_Co...

[BobHarrison]

I read the article. If I understand it correctly it will fix going forward if I put all of the MR in one organization and all MS in another. Then adding another MS will not extend the unused MR licenses. I still lose the cost of the unused MR licenses in the new organization.

[cmr]

No, you can move just the unused MR to the new org from the license key they were last renewed in.  Then when you add the MS it will only split across the active devices.

Alternatively you can still speak to support.

[BobHarrison]

Thanks, that does make more sense than moving the active ones.

Would that add time onto the devices in the original organizations, or does that time go to the new organization with the inactive MR?

[cmr]

I totally the new and existing orgs would both have the same licence expiry date matching the current one.  When you add the MS licence to the existing org, only that one will extend.

You will 'lose' some existong licence time to the new org, but that can't be avoided.

[BobHarrison]

Thanks. That is what I am finding is that no matter what I do we lose that time on the unused licenses.

What I think would make sense is that we should be able to cancel a license. Any time remaining from the orignial purchase would be lost. So if we bought a three year license and cancel it after two years we would lose a year. But if cancel after 4 years, any additional time that was added due only from other purchases would be added to active ones. Just my opinion.

Co-term works great while you have a growing network, but not when you downsize one part of it.

[cmr]

Excellent @Ryan_Miles I didn't realise this change 😎

[alemabrahao]

I don't think this will meet what is being asked.

It doesn't make sense in my opinion.

[Ryan_Miles]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on @BobHarrison's goals.

If @BobHarrison's main intent is to remove 17 AP licenses from the source/original Org he could go the route of:

- Create a "license graveyard" or "dummy" destination Org

- Move 17 MR licenses from the source Org to the destination Org (as long as they're not expired and meet the requirements in the doc).

As the doc mentions (and the warning in dashboard when you perform the move) it can and typically would reduce the remaining co-term time as you're removing license "value" from the source Org.

This would put @BobHarrison's Org at 17 MRs and any newly added licenses will now only be blended with what's present in the source Org. Otherwise as mentioned the only time you could change license quantities would be using a Renewal process. 

All of that said if your Org only has around a year remaining and you're planning to add a switch in that time it might just be easier to add the switch (license) and then when the Org is up for renewal right size/adjust the AP count. Adjusting the license count to 17 now likely will have very little effect to the co-term date and might be more work than it's worth.

@BobHarrison does that help? Or just confuse things more? Hopefully it helped 😀

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it further.

Cheers

[BobHarrison]

Thanks for that info. BUT, if we add a switch it will bump ALL of the devices out to a new co-term date, so there will never be a renewal date unless we stop adding devices.

Can a renewal process be done before the co-term date? Can the unused licenses be removed at that time and have the time added to the active licenses?

[Ryan_Miles]

Yes, renewals can be done early/before the co-term date.

[BobHarrison]

Thanks Ryan,

It does not appear that renewal removes unused licenses counts and add the remaining time on those to active licenses. It just adds time onto all of the licenses. I would still have to move unused licenses to a different 'graveyard' organization and let the time expire there. Correct?

[Ryan_Miles]

If you apply a license as a renewal it replaces what's there today. For example if you reduce the AP count to 17 and apply as a renewal the Org will have 17 AP licenses and it will add the license term length of the renewal to what's in place today.

Here's an example. An Org with 3 APs and 158 days remaining. If I add a new 1YR license for 2 APs as a renewal the result is an Org licensed for 2 APs and the 158 days is added with the new license of 365 days for a total of 523 days.

You can also model this out using the License Calculator tool. If I plug in the same scenario as above it yields the same output (same device count & co-term date).

[BobHarrison]

This looks like it would work if we don't have to add any devices prior to the co-term date. We still lose the remaining days on the unused licenses, this just removes them immediately.

[PhilipDAth]

Brilliant solution.

[alemabrahao]

Look this example.

[alemabrahao]

Should an organization enter the 30-day grace period because of exceeding device license limits, it can be brought back into compliance either by removing devices from networks within the organization or through purchasing additional licensing. The only other time an organization will enter this 30-day grace period would be if its licensing has expired by passing the co-term date. If this occurs, the only way to bring it back into licensing compliance is through the purchase of all new licensing for active devices.
 
For example, if an AP is added to an organization that already has five APs and licensing for ten APs, no additional licensing is required because the organization's license limit is higher than the number of APs in the organization. But if an MX series security appliance was added to the same organization, it would enter the 30-day grace period because the organization is not licensed for MX security appliances. For more information about the 30-day grace period, read the License Limit and Current Device Count section of this article or refer to the License Info article.

[K2_Josh]

@PhilipDAth  and @alemabrahao,  is this a decent summary of all of the posts above for the layman not familiar with the intricacies of the co-termination model? 

If a Prod org ever has unused licenses, then they should always be transferred to a Graveyard org before adding new licenses. And in the event that any licenses from the Graveyard org are ever needed, then they can be added back to the Prod org whenever new devices are added/re-added to Production. Moving licenses from Prod has zero effect on the co-term date unless new licenses are being added to the Prod org.

[Ryan_Miles]

A couple of comments on this. If licenses expire they cannot be moved. So you cannot move them around between Orgs forever. Second, moving licenses from an Org can impact the co-term date. You're essentially removing license value and therefore it can/will draw the co-term date down/backwards.